Manage Your Consulting Clients Through a Membership Site Memberium

[00:00] Micah: Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Membership Site Success Show. Again, we have Mary Kay with Convertmore Consulting, and you'll notice we're wearing the same clothes as the last episode because we filmed these together. But now we are standing, so a little different energy here. Mary Kay, we're going to talk about a client portal. So again, using membership site software or something besides a membership site, I want to ask, first of all, what is a client portal? Why would somebody want one? You know, who wants it?

[00:32] Mary Kay: Great question. Well, a client portal is really for an agency, small agency in particular, like this is which is what we are. The number one challenge that I've experienced over almost 20 years of being an agency owner is managing clients. That's just always going to be the number one challenge with the agency is getting the clients on the page that you need them on, delivering things like recordings of sessions and things of this nature.

[00:59] Micah: And what I realized as I was building Membarium Sites for membership content access and or course portal access was that that level of quality of delivery was something that I wanted to be able to give to my clients as well.

[01:18] Mary Kay: Even though they weren't in a course per se, I wanted to be able, rather than sending them the Zoom link to our session, I wanted them to be able to access it in a structure that was branded and had just more to offer to the client. And so I started working on this for us probably seven or eight years ago. And it continues to evolve because clients never stop teaching you where the holes in your process are. And so we've just been layering it over time. And now it is absolutely an indispensable tool in our ability to communicate to clients who are ongoing, to get them onboarded the whole nine yards.

[01:59] Micah: So I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask, would it also be useful for, let's say, an attorney or other types of consultants besides agencies?

[02:07] Mary Kay: A hundred percent. Yeah, absolutely. For some, for some, you would probably have to, you know, layer certain types of confidentiality and maybe if it's medical, it would be HIPAA, et cetera. But the application is the same. It's just about thinking about the individual use case and then building the building the structures accordingly.

[02:26] Micah: So what do you want to show us?

[02:28] Mary Kay: Well, let's get into the portal. Let me share screen. And so we are currently on the admin view.

[02:35] Micah: And actually what I'm going to do is I'm going to go ahead and hop over to the user view here.

[02:41] Mary Kay: And I'm going to log us in as a test user. So it's a very simple, obviously a very simple login page, but it repeats our branding and some of our confidence builders, our badges, such as our Membarium Certified Agency Partner. And I'll log in. And one of the things that we've done, again, we've been kind of in the agency game for quite a while. One of the things that we did a number of years ago was we began to productize our offers. And this has been really essential in terms of just being able to scale. Because if everything is a one-off, you know, any of us who have ever written proposals know that that whole process is so incredibly time consuming and everything is sort of a special special. But by productizing our offerings, we have been able to really even lean more deeply into a portal structure. And I'm just going to show you a couple of examples here. Now, this particular example is a little bit nonsensical in that someone who would be a complete client, for example, which is our ongoing subscription, would not also be what we call a coffee card client. But I wanted to show you the kind of the different structures that we have built into the client portal relative to those different types of products that we offer. So what we're looking at right now, this is that logged in user homepage. This is what we use almost universally on all sites. If anyone watching this has watched the affiliate one program that we just covered. When someone logs in, I like to have them be able to see the full scope of opportunities that the company offers. And so for us, these are all of our different types of products, ways of working with clients. This is the complete client. It's a very popular service. And when they click here to access this, so if I'm a complete client, I am going to see a number of key pieces of information. There's a little welcome statement. This is going to allow me to access my session recordings. So here we utilize the post structure on WordPress. It's a standard post structure. And then we set that post to be viewable based on the contact ID. And I don't know how many of your listeners are familiar or even realize, many probably do, but some maybe did not, that in addition to allowing access through a membership level, for example, or a tag, you can also set content at an individual contact ID. And so that is what has allowed us to provide session recordings. They all basically go into the same structure. But the one I will see in this case, this example that I have for this test contact is the only one that has this test contacts ID. But you can imagine if I was a regular ongoing client that I might have 12 or 15 or 20 of those sessions. They would all be dated. So I would be able to get right back to the session. I can see the recording. There's an audio download. We can see the session chat. Now that AI is so part of our lives now, we also record this on Fathom. And now we're providing a Fathom link as well. So it gets pretty rich back here in terms of what the client can come back or send their team back into to review here at the level of the session.

[06:11] Micah: Gotcha. So just to clarify for anybody not familiar with that term contact ID, she's essentially saying this is a membership level that is particular to a person. So it's this person's membership level, which is perfect for a client, right? They should only see the private stuff between you and that client.

[06:30] Mary Kay: Absolutely. So it can also be used if you do private coaching sessions, for example. So I would refer to mine as a strategy session, but maybe you're a coach. These can also be delivered through a client portal rather than, again, just sending them the Zoom link. It's just a much higher level experience. And you can really layer additional pieces onto that that you think might be helpful. The complete program is a retainer. And each time that retainer renews, there's a particular dynamic around addition of hours. And so when they log in, they can actually see exactly how many hours they have remaining on their particular month's allotment. And so they can see if they're getting close to the end.

[07:17] Micah: And they can also click through, and this Google Doc won't let me click through and open it.

[07:23] Mary Kay: But we track everything on a Google Doc that we set up with an internal form coming from Keep. And so what my team will do is they will, let's say they execute on a particular task, and that took them one hour and 15 minutes. Now they're going to go in. They're going to log in to Keep. They're going to find that client's record. They're going to fill out the internal form. It has a number of pieces of information that they're going to include on that internal form, and then they're going to submit it. And so that is going to update the remaining hours, but it's also going to put the detail onto a Google spreadsheet. And so now the client has the ability to not only see how much time I have left, but also to see, well, what did they, you know, what they use up all these hours for. And now they're going to be able to go look at it on a granular level to be able to see exactly where their time has been spent. It's tracked back to, we use ClickUp. A lot of people use Asana. Basecamp is the same thing, but it's tracked back to a location there. So they have multiple points of being able to understand where their account stands and what has been in this particular case using up their hours.

[08:44] Micah: So cool. I'm thinking of, so I've been a consultant without this, and that was frustrating. And I've also hired consultants without this, and that's been frustrating. So this is a really, really cool tool. Can we go back to that kind of dashboard looking page? Because I also find it fascinating that you've done what, what basically every service business should do and is told to do, which is kind of productize your services, right? Can you scroll down a little bit? I just want to kind of get the lay of the land. So these are, these are some that are available that they don't have some that they do have. Why do some not have a button under them?

[09:19] Mary Kay: They're not available to this particular client.

[09:22] Micah: Interesting. And why not?

[09:23] Mary Kay: Either they haven't purchased it or they wouldn't make sense relative to the other offer that they have. So for example, 90 days to more, this is a, as the name would suggest, this is a three month, a 90 day program. And you are either in the 90 days to more leads, more sales, or more sanity. There's, there's three different options for that. We like to run that program before we would ever sign someone on to kind of our flagship complete program, which is an ongoing retainer. Because this gives us the ability to have a finite container. It's a significant, it's a significant agreement, right? It's 90 days. It's runs around $12,000. But it's, it's finite and it's clear. It has a very, very clear set of deliverables. And as we all know, for working with clients directly, you know, sometimes they come in and it feels like, oh, this is going to be my love client of my life.

[10:25] Micah: And then you get six or eight weeks and you're like, maybe not, maybe not so much. That's a nice way to put it. I think even with the best of clients, there's kind of a course that gets run, right? Yeah. And then you do it all over again.

[10:40] Mary Kay: And then you do it all over again. But this, that helps us set up that structure. Again, also project clients. So a project, an example of a fairly common project that we would do, we're obviously partners with Keep. So we would do a Keep onboarding for someone who's new to Keep. We also work with HubSpot. So a HubSpot onboarding would fall under a project because we would only ever do that once for someone. So it falls under project. There's a few other things that we put under projects as well. But I try to do as few projects that are its particular custom as possible.

[11:14] Micah: Gotcha. So in essence, you're saying some of these programs are more advanced and that's why the others aren't available because they wouldn't want them, wouldn't need them, or they're included or whatever.

[11:23] Mary Kay: Exactly.

[11:23] Micah: The one that says purchase, what does that go to?

[11:28] Mary Kay: This is a specialty program that we have started to develop. It can be used as a precursor to 90 days to more. It can be used as a supplement depending upon how someone came on board. But what we have discovered is that within the framework of our audience who we typically serve, most do not have either a customer journey mapped out and they definitely don't have a strategic revenue model. In other words, they don't understand how they are going to make money from this idea that they have. They know they're a teacher or they see themselves as a thought leader. Maybe they have a book, whatever that storyline is. But they don't really understand how to turn that into not just money, but revenue, business money. And so this is an offer. It's actually, I really like doing it. I think it's really fun. So we do include that as an opportunity for folks to just purchase kind of as a one-off.

[12:28] Micah: Yeah, this is so cool. I'm just trying to think of different use cases for this. And a couple kind of silly ones come up. I could even see an auto shop doing this.

[12:36] Mary Kay: Like I'm thinking of my car and if it said, oh, oil change alignment, whatever different services were here.

[12:42] Micah: And then especially if it prioritized them and said, hey, do this. But then when I go in for my next oil change, I'm seeing the other services. And same even with, let's say like a spa or whatever, right? You go in to book your massage and they're like, oh yeah, I should get a facial one of these times or whatever it is that's on there. Yeah, I could see this crossing into any service business. Of course, it's fantastic for your use case.

[13:04] Mary Kay: Absolutely anything. And under the category of the cobbler's children have no shoes, like I'm looking at this right now and going, oh, I can see all kinds of adjustments I'd love to make. And it's the top of the year, so it's probably a good time to come in here and make some adjustments. This is very much an evolving structure for us, but it works really, really well, even as it's laid out in its current configuration. Another piece that we have that's kind of unique, so we have a program that we call Coffee Card. And it's our lowest priced hourly automation service. And this is for business owners who just really want to be 100% self-directed, but they need a solid team to get things done for them and keep or in HubSpot or on their membership site, etc. And so this program has some interesting bells and whistles associated with it because we want to do things like we want to minimize, for example, how much project management would be required. And so we have a lot more how-to's back here for Coffee Card because we need to educate that client to a higher degree than we do our complete clients, for example. Or if they're in that 90-day program, we really hold their hands in that and it's like, okay, step one, step two, step three. It's highly systematized. Whereas this is, hey, let us know when you need us.

[14:32] Micah: And so we've built in pieces such as how the program works.

[14:37] Mary Kay: So they have an overview and how their charges are going to roll out. Like what's the multiplier for rush and super rush work and what qualifies for that?

[14:46] Micah: So we're trying to make sure that the client is always informed about how to engage with us and then what to expect when they do engage.

[14:57] Mary Kay: Here's the time remaining on the card. This allows them to purchase with one click. This is a memoriam create order button that will utilize the card that is on file for the client and process another 10 hours. We charge these up at 10 hours at a time. If they've had any sessions, they're going to be able to access them there. We have a work request. And so that goes to this page. And so this is the form that every coffee card client fills out when they need us to do something. So this is a gravity forms that's all linked up utilizing memoriam coding. So there you see the client's name and information. And then where are we going to be working? The type of work. Describe in detail what you would like done. Is this going to be repeated on a regular schedule? And then there's conditional. So if it says yes, well, tell us what the repetition is. So our goal with this is to collect all the pieces of information so that our project manager can basically go, oh, got it, and hand it to the team to execute.

[16:08] Micah: Gotcha. This is interesting in a lot of ways. And I'm sure there's more you're going to show. But anybody in a, probably in any service business, but I think especially in the agency business, controlling expectations or being on the same page with the customer is so difficult. Even if you tell them, and one thing I've noticed in here throughout is you are, like you're saying, you're always informing them of, hey, here's where you're at. Here's what it costs for more. Here's a bunch of our policies and terms. It's just constantly there. So they can, you know, they're never going to be in a situation where they say, oh, well, I thought it was this and that, you know, and it becomes awkward.

[16:44] Mary Kay: That is, that's kind of a nightmare.

[16:46] Micah: So this is cool. You know, like you're saying, this helps your internal team. But I, for example, I'm working with one client who I love right now, and I normally don't do any sort of work, but he, I had built his site initially. So he came back to me like years ago. He came back to me to kind of rebuild it since I, and, and I'm thinking, man, even though it's only one client and even though it's somebody I really like, and they're easy to work with, this would still benefit me. But with multiple clients and with somebody who you're more likely to get, you know, a little bit split apart as far as expectations go, it's, it's phenomenal.

[17:17] Mary Kay: Yeah. People hear what they want to hear. You know, cause when you're, when you're, even if you have this great onboarding, if it's verbal, we, we only process the information as we choose to receive it. Right. We all these human beings have all these filters.

[17:31] Micah: And so this has saved us so many times when a client has tried to push back to be able to come back to the documentation and show them, well, actually that information was here.

[17:47] Mary Kay: And one of the things we built this, I built this about a year ago, maybe a little bit longer. I actually have a learn dash driven force. A little bit more. So they start here, module one has four lessons associated with it. Business hours, navigating the portal, connecting you and your team, creating your free Lucid chart account. And then there's a review. I actually quiz them at the end. True or false? Because Convertmore is an online company. They can be expected to respond most anytime I need them, even on weekends and holidays.

[18:32] Micah: This is a funny, funny use. I love it.

[18:35] Mary Kay: Right? Because any of us who do have done any level of consulting work or client work, no matter what, they're going to push those boundaries. And so this was an opportunity to be a little bit, a little funny about it, but also just really reiterating, no, we're serious. We do have business hours and we do have parameters around that. And again, thank you for respecting those. So that's set up through here. Then we have understanding project management.

[19:09] Micah: This tends to be for our audience.

[19:13] Mary Kay: They tend to not be super left-brained folks. They tend to really kind of live over in the right side of their head.

[19:20] Micah: And so project management and how to push and pull that process, especially as we get

[19:26] Mary Kay: into the complex clients, like the complete folks, and we're doing a lot of things for them. It really, really is critical. And this has helped quite a bit. And then the kicker, communication. So I have a whole piece on what our expectations are relative to communication. And the only time I've ever fired a client, and there's been more than one, but the one reason that I have made the decision to do that has always been connected to communication and whether or not that communication was respectful and professional. And if it had fallen off that and I'd spoken with them and they hadn't come on board. So this gives me a way to, even before any of that would ever need to be said, kind of create a sense of expectations and how we show up. Professional, respectful, clear, specific, and accurate, and kind is right there in the onboarding.

[20:23] Micah: So, you know, a lot of what you're doing here, I'm sure increases the value of your service in reality and the perceived value, which is kind of the same thing. But it reminds me of a doctor's office a little bit where you have an intake form. There's all this kind of positioning done so that then you respect the process and you respect the advice given and you follow the advice. And it's designed to help the client be in that role of, yeah, you need, you hired this person, you're paying them a lot. They're a professional, you know, let's make sure and keep that kind of straight versus, you know, overriding or whatever. Cause of course your client is a big shot in their own world. Right. But, but that's why they hired you. So I, I love this use of learn dash to say, Hey client, let's take a quiz to be sure we're on the same page. It's fantastic.

[21:14] Mary Kay: Exactly. Exactly. All right. The only other piece back here, I would love to show you is another piece that we developed. And I just really want to reiterate that, that almost to an item, this has been solving a problem, client problem driven. So a problem will sort of rear its head around a particular client or situation. And my question is, how do I solve that with a system? How do I solve that with a system? And this evolving client portal has been the answer to that each and every time. So one of the things we've developed in the last few months has been an online brief process. This is very similar to the work request.

[21:59] Micah: Only this is done in tandem with, this is a complete client process.

[22:04] Mary Kay: So they say, well, I want to, I want to launch a new offer in six months or whatever the conversation is. When we have our strategy meeting, then the project manager is going to fill this out in the meeting. And then we will pass this data back and forth until the client signs off on it. And so then we have a project brief or a launch or whatever it is that we're going to be developing that, that, that then we can send back to them if there's change requests, et cetera. Because what we found was there's always going to be a change somewhere. Oh, I forgot to tell you this, or, oh, I've changed my mind about that. And what we were doing is we were just sort of having to catch that. And this way we just refer everything back to a primary brief. And then they change, they actually put in a change request from the brief. And it has made that process in particular for these larger ongoing clients so much smoother. Just the process of going through it has helped tremendously. And so it has, you know, all the questions that you would, that really you need. And then it has conditional formatting as we love to use with gravity forms, depending upon what responses are, et cetera. So this has really been quite a, quite a plus from a project management and keep everybody on the same page.

[23:26] Micah: Yeah. What I'm noticing here, I guess, as like a theme is you're able to control the inputs so that you can tailor it to your client, but it's all going back into common systems. Like you said, ClickUp, a project management thing, you're using Google Docs behind this, right? You're using the same systems, but the digital interaction or virtual interaction or whatever is, is way more streamlined and processed and professional and just nice. There's not details falling through the cracks. One question I have is, do you get pushback from clients about filling all this out? Do they just want to like shoot you an email or talk to somebody? How does that conversation?

[24:05] Mary Kay: This particular piece, this brief is actually filled out in a strategy session. And so it's part of, part of their retainers. They meet twice, twice a month with me and with the project manager. And we have a schedule for that. So this would be pulled in if the client was on schedule for a launch or, you know, something that they needed to develop that was fairly significant, that was bigger than just a single point. So for our, in our world, usually that's going to be pointing towards a launch, although not exclusively. The only folks that have to fill that out on their own are those coffee card folks, but they are receiving our lowest priced automation hour. And the reason they get that price is because we let them know right up front, this is a client directed program. I'm not included.

[24:55] Micah: I don't work on coffee card clients because I'm out, I'm out of that mix.

[25:00] Mary Kay: I'm not going to provide any strategic overlay or anything like that. Whereas with our complete clients, they're receiving my brain, my strategy, my guidance, project management, and then the implementation as well. So that's a more complete package, but that's why the project manager fills this out and not the client for this particular offer.

[25:23] Micah: Okay. And that answers it. Cause earlier when you were showing the coffee card thing, I was thinking the same thing, you know, do you get any pushback? But it makes sense that no, they're getting a better price to do some of that work themselves versus this is more of a handheld concierge kind of experience.

[25:38] Mary Kay: Exactly.

[25:40] Micah: What else do you, well, let me ask a different question. I was going to ask, what else do you do in here? But I'm going to ask, what do you wish you could do in here?

[25:48] Mary Kay: Gosh, that's a really good question, Micah. Throw me on the spot. What do I wish I could do in here? I don't know that I've come up with anything that I wish I could do in here that I can't do short of just doing it and, you know, putting, building out my own pair of shoes. Right. I've already mentioned the fact that, for example, like coffee card, they can just re-up their card right from the portal, which is super helpful. If they notice that they're, they want to submit that work request and they know it's fairly hefty and they've only got 15 minutes left on their card. They can, can resubmit that. I know that just kind of on a, on a personal business note, I definitely could do much better in organizing and laying this out in such a way that it would be more effective at triggering some of the sub offers in here relative to where that particular client is in the moment. We build that in as kind of a, a regular feature when we're building out course access and membership sites or combined combinations of those, which we do a lot. What's next. And so based on someone's, let's say there are five modules through a six module course, we would be teeing up the next course for them and would be positioning some sort of an offer in the portal to do that. That would be really smart for me to do back here as well. I just haven't done it yet, but from a functionality perspective, I haven't hit a wall, Micah, that I've been like, Oh, I need to solve this particular problem. I need to raise our bar of professionalism and efficiency and efficacy and hit a wall from a, from a technology perspective. I can't Dave so far out in front of me, like his development, like, wow, when did you add that? Now I got to figure out what to do with it.

[27:35] Micah: Yeah. And she's referring to Dave Bullock, the developer of Mandarium. And yeah, there's, it is funny because sometimes I'll, you know, I might be a little biased because it's my company and, and whatever, but there really isn't a lot that you cannot do. And even if, even if you cannot do it directly with the plugin, Hey, you're in WordPress, you can still go program your own stuff on top of it, but mostly you really don't have to. Like you're saying, because Dave has created so many shortcuts to do so many things. And yeah, just to kind of recap what you said earlier, you've essentially, when I asked, you know, what do you wish you could do? You're saying you want to optimize this.

[28:11] Mary Kay: You've essentially built in the functionality as you needed it, but now you're looking at

[28:15] Micah: it saying, Oh, I could go back and optimize it. Like I do for all of my clients. Right?

[28:19] Mary Kay: Yeah. Yeah. The other thing we have on this, I haven't shared with you is we have all of our documentation is posted here. And some of this documentation is open to the public. In other words, you wouldn't have to be logged in to go access it. And some of it is either behind the login wall, either in whole or in part. And so one of the things we've been able to do within that framework is make sure, for example, like our, one of our most important pieces of documentation, you'll appreciate this is the memberium access troubleshooting doc. This one is definitely open as I want clients team to be able to get to this. It's, it's my most shared link back to clients that have a, that have a memberium portal, which is almost all of them. And this is for their customer support team. When they get a ticket that says, I can't log in, or I'm not seeing this, or I'm not seeing

[29:19] Micah: that before it comes back to us, they need to have gone through this checklist.

[29:25] Mary Kay: And so we use, we use the, the blog structure basically heavily to provide our clients with just really baseline information. So the top one is how we do things. Got a whole article on, you know, how to get us your, your content. People are all over the place. Sometimes we're just answering questions that I get on a regular basis. How to test, how to submit a work request, list hygiene, onboarding tips. Can I make changes to my campaign? Right. Any of us who do any kind of keep Infusionsoft development work, client gets in there and blows up the campaign. Right. And then you're getting the phone call on Sunday morning going, I don't know what I did, but it's not working anymore. So we've tried to, we try to stay ahead of the curve a little bit in helping our clients understand a variety of things. And then I even just have some kind of basic business tips in here. How to write email, follow-up copy, list hygiene, session reminders, best practices, things of this nature. So these are a little bit random and most of them have just been done like literally in response to a client question. But over time, we've developed quite a little library of documentation that helps us inform our clients how to help us help them, but also how to help themselves a little bit better, how to anchor into thinking about being a business owner, thinking about how they need to manage their database, thinking about various and sundry other pieces that will just help them grow their business more effectively.

[30:58] Micah: Yeah, this is cool because I'm sure as you're doing it, you know, like you said, you answered the question anyways, but then to take the extra time and repurpose it into something that

[31:07] Mary Kay: is now one to many at first kind of sucks.

[31:11] Micah: But once you get a little library going, you're like, Hey, I'm saving time. I'm helping people. You know, this is, this is what I think it's all about is having a place to put your IP, your ideas and content like this, and then a way to actually direct people through it. Very cool. Do you have, I know you're charging their card from inside, but is this also a place where they update and manage their credit cards?

[31:34] Mary Kay: They can definitely. And they do use the account structures. So we do have the update. And of course, obviously password changes, updating your email, kind of the standard run of items. The one thing that I don't allow them to do here, just because we have parameters around

[31:55] Micah: the subscriptions is they can't cancel from here, which is something that we pretty much

[32:00] Mary Kay: build in as a, just as a standard, a standard opportunity for a more typical information-based

[32:07] Micah: membership program.

[32:09] Mary Kay: We do want people to be able to tightly manage their canceling their, their accounts and so on. We want to make that easy for folks, but for us, we don't use it because we require 30 days notice. And there's a few other bells and whistles associated with it, but everything else. Yeah. It's back here and they do use this.

[32:27] Micah: Yeah. That totally makes sense. And for those of you kind of watching, listening, these are just memberium short codes that she's put on and then styled to allow somebody to, to send their credit card back into keep or infusion soft or update their password or whatever happens to be. So I'm sure there's more we could kind of look at here, but since we are showing kind of a portal designed for agencies, I'm going to ask you this question. What advice would you give to an agency owner who is watching this whole thing?

[32:56] Mary Kay: You know, do they go try to build a membership site when they only have one client?

[33:00] Micah: You know, what, what's kind of the, a sensible way to do this?

[33:04] Mary Kay: That's a, that's a great question. And I think it just really kind of steps back to really think about what you do and how you do it process and systemization of, of what it is that you do is really critical. Now you can't get there until you've had several clients to kind of understand really even what your process is, but productizing your work is probably the single most important thing that you will do that will take you from being able to handle just a kind of as a one-off consultant. It's just you and, and two or three or five other individuals. You got to kind of get your feel for what it is that you really do and what your process is.

[33:49] Micah: But once you have that, start laying it out, start mapping it out.

[33:54] Mary Kay: And I would say at that point is when you actually have an opportunity to begin building a very

[34:01] Micah: simple structure, utilizing WordPress and, and the memberium functionality doesn't have to start

[34:09] Mary Kay: particularly big, just a really simple structure of building in a way for people to interact with your process, documenting it, et cetera. This is several years down the road in the making. It didn't start like this, but the sooner you begin, once you do have an awareness of your process and are moving towards productizing your offers, you're, you're just really going to, you're going to thank yourself a million times over. It saves so much, just stress. It's not even time.

[34:41] Micah: It's more, it's more stress.

[34:44] Mary Kay: Client management stress is no fun.

[34:47] Micah: Yeah, I agree. And I'm thinking of this, you know, that feeling you get when you do create a one-to-many asset, like you're saying you have productized something. And then somebody asked that same question that somebody else asked and you're able to say here, you know, that's such a good feeling. Right. And then doing it over and over automating, it just gets better and better. Well, Mary Kay, I think this is an awesome use case with a ton of functionality. It's, it's very simple, right? It's not like you are trying to win design awards. It's, it's nice, but just getting the job done, making it clear, you know, keeping the communication with you and the client and the billing and everything, I really do think any service business could benefit from this. And then of course, you know, once they're in here doing all this, maybe there is an opportunity for more of a traditional membership or course or community or whatever, but just, just managing the service, managing the client, having that digital paper trail on everything. I'm sure it brings, like you're saying, a bunch of peace of mind. You don't have to deal with some of the issues that you would otherwise have to deal with. Well, thank you again for coming on. Is there anything else that you want to say to service businesses out there?

[35:52] Mary Kay: No. Productize, build a portal as soon as you can. Call us if you need some help.

[35:58] Micah: Yeah. I was going to say, if you look under, you know, wherever you're watching this, you can always find Mary Kay at convertmoreconsulting.com. We'll put a link to it under here though, but I would advise you to talk to her.

[36:10] Mary Kay: And I say this because I've known her for about a decade, at least maybe longer.

[36:15] Micah: I don't even know. And she's just, you know, as you can tell from these interviews, just a straight shooter, good person, hard worker. So definitely take her up on, you know, anytime you can get from her to talk about your project and try out some of these services. And like she said, you should be building one of these for yourself in order to kind of grow and scale and, and not go insane through the process. Mary Kay, thanks again for joining us.

[36:38] Mary Kay: Thanks, Micah. It's been a real pleasure. Thanks, Micah. Thanks, Micah. Thanks, Micah. Thanks, Micah. Thanks, Economics. !